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This is program PM on KYW, Westinghouse Radio in Cleveland, Ohio.

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I guess you can tell from the rather hysterical type of music that we're out there again,

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as some would say, out there in left field.

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But there are many people, apparently, from the mail we've been getting on this particular

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portion of program PM, who it's becoming more of a center-fuel type subject, I guess.

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And you know, I'm speaking of ufology, unidentified flying objects or flying saucers.

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And tonight, many thanks to check off down the list and talk about with our UFO investigators,

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Bob Grove and Earl Nett.

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Now let me just give you a little rundown of what's to come in weeks to come here on program PM's

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UFO roundtable.

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Professor Charles Meany, an astronomy and mathematics professor at Defiance College,

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will be our guest next week, January 17th.

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On the following week, January 24th, Mr. Wesley Fitch, who is Earl and Bob Tell Me,

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has one of the largest collection of UFO materials known.

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And the following week after that, I hope to invite from the Cleveland UFO Society,

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Mr. Lawrence Blasey.

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So we've got some interesting guests coming up.

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And tonight, we'd like to have, among other things, you as our guest.

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The phones are going to be used tonight.

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We've got questions in the last couple of weeks.

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The number is 241-5637.

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Now we'll be taking those calls.

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You can be calling now if you'd like.

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I'm reserving your place on the line.

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But we'd like to talk to Bob and Earl about a few things first.

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Kind of set the groundwork.

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Bob, you were here early.

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You had a chance to go through the mail.

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And boy, it was a lot this week.

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And you know, like, please keep it coming.

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Just sit right here at the KYW.

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Find anything particularly interesting that needs answering, Bob?

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Yes.

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As a matter of fact, I sure would hate to have to have the job of weeding through it

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and finding out what was more interesting than the others.

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I found all of it absolutely fascinating.

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One letter, which I tried to get to last week on the air and didn't get a chance to,

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was a statement which wound up by Dave Barrow from the Speed Lunkers Associated in Bowdoin, Georgia.

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They listen every week to us.

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But they seem like there is a cave explorer.

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Cave explorer.

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Right.

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Fascinating enterprise.

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And I understand from the text of their letters,

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that isn't the only thing they're interested in.

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They're interested in this type of thing, too.

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I finally wind up in the letter by saying something that really has a lot of truth to it.

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Just being teens makes us very anxious to help clear up the UFO mystery.

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And nobody appreciates that more than a high school teacher, believe me.

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Pardon me, Bob, but you don't suppose that the beings Speed Lunkers,

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they'd be interested in the shaver mystery.

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That's down below the ground, you know.

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Oh, yes, that's right.

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So it is.

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We'll have to get into that one.

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Yeah, somebody called about the other night asking.

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So far as other letters had came up,

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Barry Foster from Akron would like to have a list of books and magazines available.

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Ed Wood, Bruce Klobecki and David Lake.

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So for these gentlemen, the publications that I hardly recommend,

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one of the newest ones is called The Great Flying Saucer Hoax.

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And this has been out now for about a year.

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Written by Carl Lorenzen, L-O-R-E-N-Z-E-N, Carl Lorenzen,

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who has the Aerial Phenomenon Research Organization from Tucson, Arizona.

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Another one, E.J. Rupelt, R-U-P-P-E-L-T, The Report on Unidentified Flying Objects.

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And any of the Donald Keyhole productions on paper are very good.

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So far as magazines that are out, this is kind of rough.

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But Flying Saucers by Ray Palmer is probably the number one publication on a large scale in magazines.

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The APRO Bulletin and the NICAP Investigator, which are respectively Lorenzen's and Keyhole's bulletins,

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are also excellent sources of new material on UFO investigation.

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A very fine letter, I might say, from Kenneth Parrington from Romeo, Michigan,

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regarding his reports and theories.

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And thank you very much.

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It made very interesting reading.

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This was a fellow who works for one of the motor companies.

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Right.

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He's a test driver for one of the motor companies up near Romeo, Michigan.

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And he has made some very fascinating discoveries for himself so far as the UFO phenomenon are concerned.

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I just wondered, Bob, how he outlined in that long letter that he wrote some very interesting flying saucer that he observed.

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And he says that half of the plant at the...

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She said, where he worked.

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Yes, that's right.

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Have you heard about that one before?

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No, that one had never come by.

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This is one of these that a whole number of people will see, and then it never makes the papers.

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Mainly, and I'll tell you another thing that we can bring in immediately at this point I wanted to bring in.

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The term that crops up so often in these letters, please don't use my name on the air.

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Why is that?

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That is a very interesting thing.

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And I think it's because of some of the, well, not disrespect, but tongue-in-cheek attitudes that have been taken on by a number of people

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who have talked to people that perhaps are very credulous or perhaps lead the UFO investigation

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on into something of the realm of the complete supernatural and the leave objectivity.

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This is an unfortunate black eye that sometimes arrives for the UFO's sincere investigation.

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And I think it's really a shame that this sort of thing does happen, but some people are really afraid to associate,

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although they want to know all they can.

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The struggle of conformity.

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Yes, the struggle of conformity.

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It's an unfortunate sort of thing that has been imposed on this.

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I want also, if I might, to thank a clarification letter that came from an ex-army man whom I referred to on the air

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that turned out to be an ex-army woman.

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So thank you, ma'am, for writing this letter of clarification.

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Viva la Défense.

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I guess.

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Joe and Jerry from Lorraine, thanks very much.

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And don't apologize for your writing.

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It was no trouble reading it, and your sighting was very, very interesting.

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And by the way, both of them did a very good job in describing an object the way it should be described

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as a familiar object held at arm's length.

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Now they said a dime at a six-foot distance.

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This, of course, is a very long arm, but in any case, it does give a perspective on the object that was seen.

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I want to thank them for it.

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So far as Bruce Klobecki, you were interested for your tape recordings there,

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and where you can get things that I said you can detect UFOs with.

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Transducers are difficult to come by, but can be bought from special electronics outlets.

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Cartwright detectors are basically big compasses which have to be built.

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For UFO pictures, flying saucer magazines, and then check very carefully on the sources from these magazines.

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One other thing before we go in, there was a two-tonight phone call, which I see are already on the line.

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We had a call just after the program last week, and I want to get in touch with the gentleman again.

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Bob Noack, I hope you're listening tonight.

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He's a college student, and he has two letters from the Air Force, one completely denying the existence of UFOs

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and the other one, classifying UFO investigation as top secret.

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I think these are both very interesting, and we'll delve into that at a future date on the program.

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In fact, I'd like to talk to Bob on the air on one of our broadcast phone calls one of these days.

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Now, we will get to those phone calls in just a moment.

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First, let me ask you, Earl, you're involved in a good deal, are you not, with giving lectures.

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Now, what do you try to present when you have a lecture?

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Well, I try to make every lecture different because of the age bracket, for instance, of the audience,

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or their knowledge of the subject.

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I always check with the chairman or the program director as to how much the people really know about the subject

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or what phase of the UFO picture they'd like to hear about.

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And I would like to say this, that I never make a charge for myself, but I do ask that a check be sent to either NYCAP or APRO.

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They are both, as you know, nonprofit groups.

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And for that reason, for the amount of time I spend to prepare for a lecture,

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I feel that it's worth the trouble to have them send the check to those organizations, or either one.

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And I would like to say that, besides from the help this gives the organization, it also serves to announce to one and all that you are not in this for the money.

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Definitely.

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Thank you very much.

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As an interest, let's get to a couple of the, oh, by the way, now for all those lectures, you can just drop a card here to Earl Ness,

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program PM, KYW, Cleveland, and we'll be glad to hold them for Earl if you'd like to have him visit with your group.

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Let's take a call now, and we'll get back and talk with Bob and Earl some more after they answer some questions from the workverse.

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Okay, what's your question, please?

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What's your question like?

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Go ahead.

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How long do we think UFOs have been around?

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Not just to our knowledge, but in general, maybe even going beyond what we actually know, and be the Bob or Earl,

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might have an opinion on how far they go back.

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Let's find out, Earl, what do you think?

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Well, there is a subject for a great discussion.

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Desmond Leslie would tell you in many, many digits how many many years ago the first on the scene,

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going back maybe a million years and so on.

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But so far as the general public is concerned today, we go back to 1947 when Kenneth Arnold saw them.

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Yet the Borey Island case that took place a little before Kenneth Arnold called them flying saucers,

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just a matter of a very few days relatively before the famous sighting of Arnold.

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But actually these objects have been coming here for many, many, many years,

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and it is nothing new only that it has received greater publicity of recent years.

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Well, based on the information that you have now, gathered from all sources,

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just in your own opinion, when is the date that you would fix, as they're saying, to my own satisfaction, this is when they probably started coming?

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Well, before the days of Christ.

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Not long.

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Yes.

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And we've only been off the ground for a relatively few years when the rights got us off.

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And this is not off the ground.

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I'm speaking now, I'm speaking of interplanetary travel that has happened.

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So that's the reason why it's always interesting to me when I pick up something where scientists are called men with closed minds.

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I think this article that I handed to you the other evening from Nick Nestor stated,

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it was written by Dr. Ivan Stevenson, and in there it was very shocking to me to learn that it was actually 1903 when the scientists finally,

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and the astronomers admit it, that meteorites come not just from some volcanic eruption and blown by the wind,

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but actually come from outer space.

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That's only 160 years ago.

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And prior to that.

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I mean, they really thought they just went up and came down again.

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Yes, they just couldn't believe that they were from the sky.

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I'd like to go into that maybe next week before we get our friend, Professor Manion,

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because he is one of the men who does not have a closed mind.

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All right, I'd like to read that during the course of this week,

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and then we can talk about it on the air before talking to Professor Manion.

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Bob, what do you think about how long they've been living here?

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Well, I generally take the side or the attitude that much of the well-biblical and pre-biblical and of course post-biblical writings

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are a very subjective nature, and for this reason, I am reluctant to accept everything that is in them without an interpretation.

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I shouldn't say I'm reluctant to accept everything in them, but I should say that there are some items in there which I think have to be interpreted,

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and we know that were placed in there through interpretation, and for this reason, not knowing the exact perspective in which they were admitted to these works,

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not just the Bible, but other works that went along with it, I feel that I generally find a little more comfort in accepting the Second World War on,

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reports from the First and Second World War on, in other words, the early 1900s.

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The Foo Fighters?

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Yes, Foo Fighters on, in other words, when you're speaking of the Bible, you're probably referring to like Ezekiel with a wheel within a wheel,

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and some people interpret that way.

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Yes, that's right, some people interpret that as a flying saucer. I'm here to rub a little more literally.

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You can interpret it in many ways.

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Well, okay, that's it for you. I'm sure it does. Thank you for calling. Program, P.A., your question please.

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You'd like to know if anyone has ever seen a flying saucer land? And that's all?

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Oh, that's easy.

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Well, I'm sure it's a yes, but let's find out how, why and what.

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Well, right back in our own general area, Old and More. The man we went into great detail about some weeks back,

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who not only saw it land, but then the following day the Geiger counters showed that it had landed, the radioactivity.

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It showed that something was there.

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Yes, micro-rentions were 20 times what they should have been under normal conditions, and there have been many landings.

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I don't mean by that, but I go along with contactees and the little green antennas and all that.

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How many people saw this particular landing you're talking about?

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Old and More alone.

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Just one.

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And he went home to get his wife, and when she came back it was gone. Of course, he had a harder time than ever to explain that.

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Which ones have you heard about, Bob?

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Of course, Old and More is the one we always think about, associated close here.

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How long was it?

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Old and More was a 58 or 56.

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I'll look it up somewhere.

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Several years ago, late 50s.

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Of course, from a standpoint of landing, UFOs that have landed.

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There was one seen over a lake in South America, and this is written up in Carl Lorenzen's latest publication.

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This supposedly had disintegrated in the air, and she has something that looks like awfully good, almost proof that this happened.

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And I suggest then refer them immediately to Carl Lorenzen's The Great Flying Saucer Hoax,

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referring the hoax by the way to the Air Force perpetration that she would suggest they are doing, saying they don't even exist.

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That's a mystery in time.

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Yes, it is.

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Pride in November the 22nd, 1957, was when this article was printed in the Cleveland Plain Dealer, and this was relative to Old and More.

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So it happened the day before.

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Okay, so apparently there have been plenty of sightings.

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Okay.

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And landings.

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Thank you for calling.

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I wish I could think of the one I mentioned several weeks ago on the show.

222
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This is famous West Virginia, and I meant to ask Bob or Earl, would you check into that for me, something monster.

223
00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:13,000
Oh, the monster.

224
00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:14,000
I'll tell you what it is.

225
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:17,000
The Bluefield Monster or something monster.

226
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:18,000
I know that story well.

227
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:23,000
Because I heard this, I was just listening with slack jaw when I first heard it, you know.

228
00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,000
Well, the school teacher and her children were going up on this no one.

229
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Incidentally, when we have see Wesley Fitzger, he has covered that ground thoroughly and can tell you to the minute detail time for meeting all about it.

230
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But quickly, it was a case where the school teacher and a few of her pupils went over this little hill or no, and on the other side was his object right down there on the ground.

231
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And they were very frightened because this creature that they saw in the other direction then was coming toward them.

232
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I saw two.

233
00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:02,000
Yes, the one was the monster and the other was apparently a ship.

234
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A ship.

235
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A UFO.

236
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But it's a fantastic thing and it did leave an awful odor there.

237
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And this is quite frequently true where they are so close.

238
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There is a putrid odor.

239
00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:20,000
Of course, many immediately debunk this.

240
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,000
A UFO from the animal.

241
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:27,000
Well, we don't know if it's the like with angel hair, you get the ionized air and so forth.

242
00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,000
If it's that that's causing it, what it is.

243
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:39,000
But I have a strong suspicion that when anybody sees something like this and they're so startled that the eyes might look like they were headlights when they maybe are just the size of a little flashlight.

244
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So I think there is a certain amount of exaggeration perhaps there.

245
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:56,000
One of the things that stuck with me about that monster story that I wish I could think of now was that I heard that they analyzed some ground the next day and they found a chemical or something or some product that they never heard of before.

246
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Do you remember that phase of it?

247
00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,000
I don't recall that particular phase of it.

248
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,000
You're not confusing this.

249
00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:08,000
Are you with the Florida case where the Boy Scout leader had quite an experience?

250
00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,000
It's quite...

251
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:23,000
Well, this was West Virginia because the Florida case as it happened, and I read about this a number of years ago, but as it happens when I read about that in the paper, this Florida scout master had been my scout master.

252
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Really?

253
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:26,000
He was from West Palm Beach.

254
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:27,000
Is that right?

255
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He was my scout master when I was down there.

256
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And at the time I said, well, he always was kind of a...

257
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But the ground was badly fractional.

258
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Before I met you fellas.

259
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,000
All right, thank you for calling.

260
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:43,000
Program PM, your question please.

261
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:52,000
If there is life on other planets, do we think it would be life as we know it around us today?

262
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All right, Bob?

263
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:58,000
Well, I suppose this would be more or less referred to me as much as I do teach space science.

264
00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:08,000
Now from the standpoint of life as we know it, of course, this is based on the chemical processes which we as humans are we as earthbound life exhibit.

265
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We would again have to conjecture in this because we quite truthfully, no scientist knows.

266
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But because no scientist knows, we're making definite strides forward in doing research on this original research.

267
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We're setting up, for example, the huge radio telescopes constantly monitoring the very, very high frequency, 1420 megacycle wavelength for possible signals from outer space of an intelligent origin.

268
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Not only are we doing this, but of course our Mariner 2 space probe, which has just two weeks ago passed the planet Venus is still, or I should say at the time, radioed by telemetry.

269
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A tremendous amount of information back to our computers, which is constantly now being extracted for information to be released to the public.

270
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No people yet?

271
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,000
No people yet, that's right.

272
00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:59,000
How would this though, Ty, I heard something.

273
00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:15,000
There was a term I think one of our engineers around here said that, let me check it out, that there is no possibility of any chemical ingredients existing anywhere in the universe that do not exist and are not known right here.

274
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That's absolutely correct.

275
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The reason for it is because in our present atomic concept, which scientists universally now do accept in more or less, of course, degrees, any of them will say that if you take one proton and one electron, you get hydrogen and so on.

276
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Building all the way up to uranium, which is the largest unstable atom which we can possibly have before it begins to break down to make two smaller type of elements or atoms.

277
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And we suspect that the bonding force between these particles and these atoms is the same throughout the entire universe, that the subatomic particles are the same throughout the entire universe, and therefore chemicals which exist using these would necessarily have the same definite proportional laws of combination.

278
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When was the last chemical ingredient discovered here on Earth?

279
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Well, we have constantly been manufacturing new ones.

280
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We're not discovering new ones. Uranium and radium, for example, toward the beginning of the 1900s and just after 1900 we started to get in.

281
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Finally, the uranium and the radium and so on began to fill in the gap that we had.

282
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And around 1900, a little later than that, we finally got some of the more recent radioactive materials.

283
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:35,000
But there are 92 possible atoms, therefore elements, which exist in the Earth.

284
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And we suspect probably only the same 92 exist throughout the entire universe in a natural state, although artificially others can be made a little bit larger and more complex than these.

285
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Probably at one time, I hate to consider the much time on this, but I still wonder about, probably at one time when they were 87 or 91,

286
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Maybe they said that's a number 93 lurking somewhere around, that we don't know about.

287
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:06,000
Well, there's 103, but these were manufactured artificially on Earth. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt.

288
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:11,000
I just wanted to add this little bit here as long as we're talking about students and so forth.

289
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:18,000
I was talking only a few hours ago tonight with Leonard Chester of Parma, and he was telling me that his son, who attends Parma Junior High School,

290
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was telling him that many of the students up there listened to this program and they even discussed this in class the other day.

291
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So maybe these are some of the physicists with the open minds of the future.

292
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:31,000
We're becoming educational.

293
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:37,000
That's all right, in physics we talked about hypnotism today, so I don't see any reason why you don't know about UFO.

294
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:43,000
And one of your upcoming tests, I wish you would include some questions based on material on the show every Thursday night.

295
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:44,000
That way, wow.

296
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:45,000
You're giving away my final exam.

297
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:46,000
That helps a lot.

298
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:51,000
Let's start so we can get some quick questions on, some quick answers just in the few minutes of remaining time.

299
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:52,000
What's your question, please?

300
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:59,000
Have UFOs ever been monitored by a chasing or a pursuing plane?

301
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:00,000
Oh, yeah.

302
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:01,000
All right.

303
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:03,000
And if so, what circumstances, Cheryl?

304
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:10,000
Well, yes, the Chebego case is one of the famous ones, and I didn't bring the information with me tonight,

305
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but I was just furnished this the past week.

306
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:23,000
It's from an old Cleveland news a friend of mine gave me, and it tells how on radar they were tracing this for a long time,

307
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even when it wasn't visible to the eye.

308
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But many, many times on radar, they do get these blips, and they can trace them, and it's tangible information.

309
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:36,000
The planes really have actually taken off in pursuit of these objects.

310
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Many times.

311
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:41,000
Of course, the famous Thomas Mantel case where he lost his life was where he was getting closer and closer.

312
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And I was told a couple of years ago that the last statement he made to the radio officer on the ground,

313
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and I hope this is true, I have no way of absolutely proving it, was as he came closer and closer to the object,

314
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and he said, my God, there are people in it.

315
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And that was the last that was heard.

316
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And let me die.

317
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:00,000
Yes, sir.

318
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Christ.

319
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:02,000
Christ.

320
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:07,000
All right, we gave a list of books earlier, and we'll probably be giving it in future weeks.

321
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:08,000
We can't take the time right now.

322
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:18,000
But if you would call back after the show is over, 2415637, Earl and Bob, you always stick around and answer our questions that we don't get to on the air.

323
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:23,000
2415637, for anybody else who'd like to call in after the show is over, if we didn't get to your question,

324
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,000
we'll stick around and answer them off the air for you, okay?

325
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:26,000
Thank you for calling.

326
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,000
Program to you and your question.

327
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,000
A few weeks ago, Earl mentioned that there had been a kidnapping.

328
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:37,000
Yes.

329
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,000
Before a group of people.

330
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:44,000
If I'm not mistaken, this was in connection with Pearl Lorenzen, and we never did get really the complete story,

331
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:51,000
and we will, next time we talk to Carl, we'll get a really complete story from the woman herself, okay?

332
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,000
The bulletin is not yet out.

333
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:54,000
Okay, then?

334
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:55,000
All right, thank you for calling.

335
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:56,000
You just keep listening.

336
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,000
We'll have that story right here on the UFO round table.

337
00:23:58,000 --> 00:23:59,000
You said that.

338
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,000
Sure, well, I'm sure glad the bulletin's like users.

339
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:02,000
Thank you for calling.

340
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:06,000
Program to you and your question, please.

341
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,000
A little bit on the what?

342
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,000
On the fictional side.

343
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:16,000
Is it not possible that these UFOs are...

344
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:29,000
that we are part of a galaxy, and that they are from where another galaxy, or they're from the same galaxy,

345
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:36,000
and they've all mastered interplanetary communication and travel, and they are just down here checking on us,

346
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:40,000
as much as we look out in our chicken coops and check on our own property?

347
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,000
Well, let's find out what Bob thinks about that.

348
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,000
This, of course, is a very great possibility.

349
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:48,000
We're, of course, assuming individually here.

350
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:55,000
Generally, people, of course, every person visualizes all existence in terms of his own frame of reference as an individual,

351
00:24:55,000 --> 00:25:03,000
and this then makes it exceedingly difficult for this universal concept, which necessarily must be studied when we're thinking about intelligence and outer space,

352
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:10,000
and it is very possible that we are not even in the middle, but maybe way behind in terms of technology from space

353
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:15,000
and technology from existence of life throughout, scattered all through the universe.

354
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:23,000
Harve, I might suggest that he read the latest issue of Flying Saucer Magazine, the American issue that you can pick up at any of the downtown stores or the bookstands.

355
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:29,000
In there, there's quite an article on the relationship of Mars, when it's closest to us, when it's furthest away,

356
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,000
its graph showing the most sightings.

357
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,000
Also, he might check with Amy Michelle in the Straight Line Mystery.

358
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,000
Okay, thank you for calling. Very interesting question.

359
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:45,000
It always kind of brings to my mind and sort of spooks me in a way, but after all these weeks, I'm still fence-straddling, not quite sure,

360
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:55,000
but I keep heartening back to the thought that not too many years ago, just not even 500 years ago, there were a great number of people right here on this earth,

361
00:25:55,000 --> 00:26:03,000
situated in a body of land known as Eurasia, that thought that they were the whole world.

362
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:07,000
And then we were sitting over here all the time where the Indians were.

363
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,000
Well, it's the way it goes, and our time is up for tonight. That's the way it goes, too.

364
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:14,000
And this time just seems to flip by Earl Leff and Bob Grove.

365
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,000
My thanks very much to both of you for joining me on program PM.

366
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,000
Our time has gone by. Tommy Griffith is chafing it a bit.

367
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,000
Time for the Tom Griffith Show all night, right here on KYW.

368
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,000
Once again, right here at the same time next week. You follow G-Round Table,

369
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,000
you're up to really hard, Morgan, and Earl Leff and Bob Grove.

370
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,000
Next week, 10.30, you follow us.